Friday, May 4, 2007
So I've been re-reading some of the old Christian books I had bought back when I became baptized.Looking at it now - through different eyes - some of what I have read seems distubring, and even nonsensical.Take for instance, this passage from "The Complete Book of Bible Answers" by Ron Rhodes, where he addresses the issue of those who have not heard the gospel message:"Because all human beings can see the revelation of God in creation - all people - regardless of whether they've heard about Christ or have read the bible - are held accountable before God. All are without excuse. Their rightful condemnation as objects of God's wrath, is justified because of their choice to ignore the revelation of God in creation is indefensible (see Psalm 19:1-6, Romans 1:20) I find this explanation absurd at best. So what this guy is saying is that - even if a person has never heard the gospel of Christ, they will still be sent to hell? And it's their fault?? Well pardon me for my blasphemy, but I really fail to see how a person in some farout country deserves punishment because they cannot see the revelation of God in nature. Furthermore, even if they did, and they ultimately choose to worship the "wrong" God because their search did not lead to hearing the gospel, they are still deserving of eternal damnation. And this is considered justifiable? No, I'm sorry, to me it's not. I refuse to believe that a person can be sent to hell for not accepting a God they don't even know exists.The passages the author gives IMO do not support this argument. Psalms 19:1-6 explains that the heavens declare the glory of God, and they pour out knowledge upon the earth. But again, just because someone sees God's work in nature, doesn't necessarily mean they will choose the "right" God, or will even be aware that it is of God. What about the atheists? They see nature as a result millions of years of scientific evolution. Nothing more. What about the early pagans? They were one of the 1st people to "see" God displayed in creation, but the God they worshipped was/is not the biblical concept of God. Looking at Romans 1:20 in context, it is clear that the people in question were already aware of God but chose to be disobediant. They are punished because of their disobediance, not for their lack of awareness of the gospel message.In light of of all this, it certainly does not seem "right" or "justifiable" to hold a person responsible for having never heard the gospel, or for believing in God but just not the "correct" one.*Please, if you disagree with me and feel the need to give me a lecture about why I'm wrong, just don't. Because you are likely not going to change my mind, and I'm not interested in any kind of debate or alternative viewpoints at the moment. Not trying to be rude, I just needed a place to vent. That's all. Thanks. :)
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6 comments:
I am not going to argue with you about this. I agree 100% with you on this. I was told growing up, that people have to actually hear the message of Christ and then if they deny it, they will go to Hell, not if they haven't even heard of it. That makes no sense to me, none at all!!!!This is really a sad,sad world if that's what people are thinking. Oh, if you get the chance, can you call me later?
I have always felt that viewpoint described in that excerpt is wrong, very wrong. I remember a few months ago at church there was an entire sermon devoted to that even, and he seems to feel the way we do. Who knows? Maybe after death, those who did not hear the message are somehow presented with it, and can then choose to accept or reject it? I don't know, I honestly don't know. But I do feel that man is wrong, wrong wrong, and, by the way, WRONG!
I always think that it's wierd when people say that God's nature is revealed through creation. I mean, for one thing, creation is really brutal in addition to being beautiful. There is a lot of evil in nature, like in the way animals kill and eat one another, and in the way that the elements (rain, wind, extreme temperatures) are cruel to the point of killing a lot of life. At best, IMHO, creation would testify to a neutral God, not a "good" God. And for another thing, even if creation does evidence the existence of God, I can't imagine how anyone in their right mind could think that it obviously and clearly evidences Jesus specifically. I mean, where? How? I would like someone to explain that to me!
Well you know my opinion since we were talking about it the other night, but I'm gonna comment anyway. I don't see how someone can in the same breathe say that people who never heard of Jesus or God will go to hell, and yet say that their God is loving. Sorry, but God would be kind of petty if he/she were really like that.
I once read a quote from a musician in Texas... it was quoted in Rodney Clapp's amazing book Tortured Wonders: Christian Spirituality for the Body. it goes something like this:"Growing up in Texas, we learned two things. First, God loves you and he's going to send you to hell, and second, that sex is evil and dirty and wrong, and you should do it with the one you love. No wonder we're so screwed up down here."not exactly worded the same, but you get the gist of it.The overly simplistic attitude inherent in the answer from that book reminds me of that quote for some reason.But then... that's what happens when for so long people have tried to make the Bible into a document that can be scientifically distilled into the correct theological statements. Aka fundamentalism.
If someone wasn't there constantly preaching or pushing some agenda I don't think they would get too crazy about membership.I don't think they are really disrespecting these groups at all (though they could be). Apparently its a restricted private group for Christian universalists to discuss things amongst themselves. Tolerance can never be absolute otherwise there could never be any criteria for group membership or direction to a club.I am sure there are plenty of general universal groups or wiccan groups out there though. If you find a good universalist group let me know! Vinnie
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